I agree with the above post wholeheartedly.
Unihedron (Lichess Moderator / Developer)
Unihedron (Lichess Moderator / Developer)
me 2
rise_UIED (Local drunk, wears sunglasses indoors)
rise_UIED (Local drunk, wears sunglasses indoors)
@GnarlyGoat (Lichess Moderator)
"All you've suggested in this thread so far is "Hey lets have a league system" without providing any details on how you imagine that this system would work or why a league system is needed in the first place. The lichess team is indeed open to ideas from the community, but they need to be detailed and they need to be practical to implement given the resources we have available."
It is unnecessary to discuss league system's pros (positives). Is it?
Hint: esports
About more details: A simple league with promotion and relegations included would be a good start.
Chess is mostly a sport, this is why we have olympic teams and leagues everywhere, ICCF league, USCF league, and many others. So why not lichess league? Lichess really deserve this. It is a revolution and can only be comparable with bitcoin revolution recently. Really! Lichess is not only a revolution about chess, it is a revolution about web 3.0 and a new philosophy against stupid internet advertising.
"All you've suggested in this thread so far is "Hey lets have a league system" without providing any details on how you imagine that this system would work or why a league system is needed in the first place. The lichess team is indeed open to ideas from the community, but they need to be detailed and they need to be practical to implement given the resources we have available."
It is unnecessary to discuss league system's pros (positives). Is it?
Hint: esports
About more details: A simple league with promotion and relegations included would be a good start.
Chess is mostly a sport, this is why we have olympic teams and leagues everywhere, ICCF league, USCF league, and many others. So why not lichess league? Lichess really deserve this. It is a revolution and can only be comparable with bitcoin revolution recently. Really! Lichess is not only a revolution about chess, it is a revolution about web 3.0 and a new philosophy against stupid internet advertising.
#10 I agree, nobody has made a compelling argument about why lichess needs leagues or how they would work. Allow me to try...
Lichess needs a ladder because competitive players bicker over "that player's rating is too low" or "that player's rating is too high" and entirely forget that the only purpose of ratings is to help players find suitable opponents.
Lichess needs a ladder because competitive players demand a "simple" way to rank competitive players, like other sites which have successfully implemented ladder or ladder-like systems (ICC, USCL, Yahoo).
Here is one possible formulation of a ladder, presented solely for discussion's sake (and not because I believe I'm some genius who gets everything right the first time):
* A player joining the ladder starts at the bottom.
* Players who decline C challenges in D days are dropped from the ladder (for some values of C and D).
* A "rank N" player may challenge players down to rank (N+N/4).
* A "rank N" player who just won a game may challenge players up to rank (N-N/4).
* Only decisive games are counted. If the challenger wins, the players switch ranks.
There you go: "simple" and hopefully unambiguous. I'm sure everyone has a different idea of what a ladder (or "league") looks like, and it makes no sense to argue in vague terms...
Lichess needs a ladder because competitive players bicker over "that player's rating is too low" or "that player's rating is too high" and entirely forget that the only purpose of ratings is to help players find suitable opponents.
Lichess needs a ladder because competitive players demand a "simple" way to rank competitive players, like other sites which have successfully implemented ladder or ladder-like systems (ICC, USCL, Yahoo).
Here is one possible formulation of a ladder, presented solely for discussion's sake (and not because I believe I'm some genius who gets everything right the first time):
* A player joining the ladder starts at the bottom.
* Players who decline C challenges in D days are dropped from the ladder (for some values of C and D).
* A "rank N" player may challenge players down to rank (N+N/4).
* A "rank N" player who just won a game may challenge players up to rank (N-N/4).
* Only decisive games are counted. If the challenger wins, the players switch ranks.
There you go: "simple" and hopefully unambiguous. I'm sure everyone has a different idea of what a ladder (or "league") looks like, and it makes no sense to argue in vague terms...
You know, there is this streamer that runs a Lichess Ladder every Sunday if you are interested:
http://en.lichess.org/forum/team-nojoke-fan-club/nojoke-ladder-wk3-report-and-standings
He's also handsome and charming if you are into that sort of thing.
http://en.lichess.org/forum/team-nojoke-fan-club/nojoke-ladder-wk3-report-and-standings
He's also handsome and charming if you are into that sort of thing.
Can confirm that the streamer is handsome and charming. You know, if you're into that sort of thing.
Thanks Gnarly.
I have actually come up with details before but they were ignored.
I'll come up with something detailed again over the next day or two...
I have actually come up with details before but they were ignored.
I'll come up with something detailed again over the next day or two...
the most important is not to put a league or something like that but focus on different kind of tourney in formats we have now . I really feel a lack of classical time tourney and never see some with increment of time ...maybe like 10+10 . I am sure they are many players who like more these kinds of time than bullet and so with no time to think ( for me it is instinct and not chess )
Ok, sod 'next day or two' :D
Tournament Series over several divisions.
Divisions begin by having similarly ranked players in the same groups.
Over X number of tournaments, players win points for positions. Best Y number of players at the end of the series of tournaments move up a division OR best Z% scores move up. Worst Y number of players move down a division OR worst Z%. Everyone who enters should receive at least 1 point, so that commitment to the competition by those who initially enter is rewarded.
I suggest that the tournaments shouldn't be glicko2 rated, but that glicko2 is a good way to divide up players to begin with.
Who knows, we might even get the top players playing against each other and avoidance might become a thing of the past!!!
Winner of each tournament and then of each league has a trophy to keep in their trophy e-cabinet. Like a F1 driver does when they win a Grand Prix and then the title...
If you think of it in terms of football, the top players end up in the top flight – the rest of us want to get there and they're all trying to stay there.
I reckon the series should be quite a long one, and there could be one or two series per year.
Moving into Season 2, new players wishing to join should have to have a stable Glicko2 to join their rating division immediately... or maybe they could work their way up from the bottom.
This sort of competition would be most fun, blatantly, with high octane chess – 1+0 or 3+0.
One of the things I like best about it is the idea that we could watch the best players in action against each other. I somehow don't see any of them wanting to be seen as too chicken to play. To that end I'd suggest staggering the competitions – have each division playing on a different day or at least an hour or so apart from each other.
Suggested starting divisions:
Premier Division: 2200+
Division 1: 1900-2199
Division 2: 1600-1899
Division 3: 1300-1599
Division 4: <1300
There's a million things you could do. This is just one of them.
How about a massive knockout cup, with random draw? I'd LOVE to see that :) Imagine that... you could run an annual knockout cup that lasted (like the FA Cup in footie) all year :D
Tournament Series over several divisions.
Divisions begin by having similarly ranked players in the same groups.
Over X number of tournaments, players win points for positions. Best Y number of players at the end of the series of tournaments move up a division OR best Z% scores move up. Worst Y number of players move down a division OR worst Z%. Everyone who enters should receive at least 1 point, so that commitment to the competition by those who initially enter is rewarded.
I suggest that the tournaments shouldn't be glicko2 rated, but that glicko2 is a good way to divide up players to begin with.
Who knows, we might even get the top players playing against each other and avoidance might become a thing of the past!!!
Winner of each tournament and then of each league has a trophy to keep in their trophy e-cabinet. Like a F1 driver does when they win a Grand Prix and then the title...
If you think of it in terms of football, the top players end up in the top flight – the rest of us want to get there and they're all trying to stay there.
I reckon the series should be quite a long one, and there could be one or two series per year.
Moving into Season 2, new players wishing to join should have to have a stable Glicko2 to join their rating division immediately... or maybe they could work their way up from the bottom.
This sort of competition would be most fun, blatantly, with high octane chess – 1+0 or 3+0.
One of the things I like best about it is the idea that we could watch the best players in action against each other. I somehow don't see any of them wanting to be seen as too chicken to play. To that end I'd suggest staggering the competitions – have each division playing on a different day or at least an hour or so apart from each other.
Suggested starting divisions:
Premier Division: 2200+
Division 1: 1900-2199
Division 2: 1600-1899
Division 3: 1300-1599
Division 4: <1300
There's a million things you could do. This is just one of them.
How about a massive knockout cup, with random draw? I'd LOVE to see that :) Imagine that... you could run an annual knockout cup that lasted (like the FA Cup in footie) all year :D
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