Why? Because it's the right thing to do. Also you have to consider that the game against the cheater can cause tilt and contribute to further losses.
@Katoh1 said in #21:
> it's the right thing to do
The right thing to do is whatever makes the rating accurate. I'm getting tired of saying this. Rating points aren't a reward for good play. They aren't earned. They are how Lichess estimates playing strength. That's it.
> it's the right thing to do
The right thing to do is whatever makes the rating accurate. I'm getting tired of saying this. Rating points aren't a reward for good play. They aren't earned. They are how Lichess estimates playing strength. That's it.
@mcgoves said in #22:
> The right thing to do is whatever makes the rating accurate. I'm getting tired of saying this. Rating points aren't a reward for good play. They aren't earned. They are how Lichess estimates playing strength. That's it.
Whatever make the rating accurate? Really? Like for example berserking?
> The right thing to do is whatever makes the rating accurate. I'm getting tired of saying this. Rating points aren't a reward for good play. They aren't earned. They are how Lichess estimates playing strength. That's it.
Whatever make the rating accurate? Really? Like for example berserking?
Yes. Berserking (sic) damages rating.
[delenda est rating refund program rant#500]
The explanations already contributed seem pretty solid, so I'll just add this: x amount of rating points is not equal in every situation. For a 2500 player to gain x points over n games, they would have to play much stronger than a 2000 player gaining x points over n games.
everyone is saying that x games after playing a cheater you should already have your original rating back so you shouldn't get a refund. but that's not true! in expected value your rating will never get back to its original value if your skill level doesn't change, because the cheater deflates the whole rating pool by stealing points from you!
i think that's why refunds are useful (other than justice being served to the cheated players), but other forces that cause an overall inflation of the rating pool might blur the issue somewhat
@sahkal said in #27:
> everyone is saying that x games after playing a cheater you should already have your original rating back so you shouldn't get a refund. but that's not true! in expected value your rating will never get back to its original value if your skill level doesn't change, because the cheater deflates the whole rating pool by stealing points from you!
It's more accurate to say that people are saying that the expected value will have approached the original rating after x games. That is why some rating refund is still given, if not the full refund.
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I wish we could dispense with rating refunds entirely. They have the tendency to inflate the ratings across the board even when given in reduced amount as per the original complaint in this thread. The playing field would still be level because we will all, on those rare occasions, encounter cheating players from time to time, and as far as the rating system is concerned those cheating players (who are here for a brief spell before being banned) can simply be regarded as very strong players, artificial though their strength is.
However, I understand that the refund is needed to keep the peace and calm people down when their general sense of justive has been hurt following encountering a cheating player.
> everyone is saying that x games after playing a cheater you should already have your original rating back so you shouldn't get a refund. but that's not true! in expected value your rating will never get back to its original value if your skill level doesn't change, because the cheater deflates the whole rating pool by stealing points from you!
It's more accurate to say that people are saying that the expected value will have approached the original rating after x games. That is why some rating refund is still given, if not the full refund.
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I wish we could dispense with rating refunds entirely. They have the tendency to inflate the ratings across the board even when given in reduced amount as per the original complaint in this thread. The playing field would still be level because we will all, on those rare occasions, encounter cheating players from time to time, and as far as the rating system is concerned those cheating players (who are here for a brief spell before being banned) can simply be regarded as very strong players, artificial though their strength is.
However, I understand that the refund is needed to keep the peace and calm people down when their general sense of justive has been hurt following encountering a cheating player.
I just think we should stop calling them "refunds". It sends the wrong message.
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