Why does one side win on time if they have insufficient material to mate? eg knight vs bishop + 2 pawns
They shouldn't.
Some sites conclude it as a draw, other as a win but according to official rules it should be a draw.
Some sites conclude it as a draw, other as a win but according to official rules it should be a draw.
@MacJJ said in #1:
> Why does one side win on time if they have insufficient material to mate? eg knight vs bishop + 2 pawns
Knight vs. bishop is insufficient material but the 2 pawns could be a problem for the black king in rare situations so knight vs bishop + 2 pawns isn't always a draw.
> Why does one side win on time if they have insufficient material to mate? eg knight vs bishop + 2 pawns
Knight vs. bishop is insufficient material but the 2 pawns could be a problem for the black king in rare situations so knight vs bishop + 2 pawns isn't always a draw.
On this site the assessment of the situation that you describe is not based on the likely outcomes of a game but the theoretically possible ones.
A lone knight cannot win against a lone king but when some other pieces are involved we might end up with a position like this :
lichess.org/analysis/8/8/B7/K1k1n3/P4P2/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white
where Black can play Nc6 #.
A lone knight cannot win against a lone king but when some other pieces are involved we might end up with a position like this :
lichess.org/analysis/8/8/B7/K1k1n3/P4P2/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white
where Black can play Nc6 #.
Lichess has an infuriating bug of not detecting mating material. I just lost a game on time against where each side had King and one knight. My opponent just moved his knight around the board until he won on time. There is no possible theoretical mating position.
@TinyMinnow said in #6:
> Lichess has an infuriating bug of not detecting mating material. I just lost a game on time against where each side had King and one knight. My opponent just moved his knight around the board until he won on time. There is no possible theoretical mating position.
Technically its possible lichess.org/editor/7K/5k1N/6n1/8/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white
> Lichess has an infuriating bug of not detecting mating material. I just lost a game on time against where each side had King and one knight. My opponent just moved his knight around the board until he won on time. There is no possible theoretical mating position.
Technically its possible lichess.org/editor/7K/5k1N/6n1/8/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white
fide rules are a bit silly in some regards. OTB those time controls where people would play on in such positions arent played often times. there are some spectacular exceptions tho (the WGM match where they had to call an arbiter e.g.) or this:
youtu.be/73usWuDeJcE?t=115
no increment OTB... srsly?
thibault:
>FIDE rules may not be the best, but they are widely recognized and accepted. If lichess doesn't follow them "à la lettre", it's gona be a mess, and a lot of people will contest the rules.
lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/no-mating-material-shouldnt-win
youtu.be/73usWuDeJcE?t=115
no increment OTB... srsly?
thibault:
>FIDE rules may not be the best, but they are widely recognized and accepted. If lichess doesn't follow them "à la lettre", it's gona be a mess, and a lot of people will contest the rules.
lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/no-mating-material-shouldnt-win
I once had bishop vs two knights. Let opponent take the bishop thinking it would be a draw. To my horror it continued and some dozen moves later I flagged. Would have been draw on chess.com! Rare corner case I guess.
People must understand these terms: "theoretical draw", "theoretical possibility of a win for one side".
A "theoretical draw" means if both players play perfectly, the game ends in a draw. Game theory and endgame manuals may use this terminology. This is not relevant to the rules (at least lichess rules) regarding losing on time.
A "theoretical possibility of a win for one side" means one side can win in SOME game resulting from the position (when one or two players don't necessarily play a perfect game). This is relevant to the rule regarding losing on time. You lose on time if there is a theoretical possibility of a win by your opponent. If you have problem with this rule, then tomorrow you might also complain that the position was drawn according to the tablebases and the opponent played on and won on time.
A "theoretical draw" means if both players play perfectly, the game ends in a draw. Game theory and endgame manuals may use this terminology. This is not relevant to the rules (at least lichess rules) regarding losing on time.
A "theoretical possibility of a win for one side" means one side can win in SOME game resulting from the position (when one or two players don't necessarily play a perfect game). This is relevant to the rule regarding losing on time. You lose on time if there is a theoretical possibility of a win by your opponent. If you have problem with this rule, then tomorrow you might also complain that the position was drawn according to the tablebases and the opponent played on and won on time.
This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.